Howard Lutnick evasive during Epstein testimony, House Democrats say

The files show Lutnick reaching out to Epstein as early as 2009 and contacting him as late as 2018. Their interactions weren’t robust, but they remained in touch, including through phone calls and charity galas.

Prior to Wednesday’s hearing, Lutnick had offered shifting accounts about their relationship, initially saying in recent years that he had no association with Epstein. Lutnick said he had cut ties with his neighbor in 2005 because he believed he was a “disgusting person.” Then, after the Justice Department files were released, he acknowledged visiting Epstein’s island.

Lutnick had voluntarily agreed to appear before the bipartisan House Oversight Committee, said Rep. James Comer, R-Ky., the committee’s chairman. Comer told reporters that he believed Lutnick “has been very transparent” in his testimony and said Democrats “repeated the exact same questions because there’s only so many questions you can ask Howard Lutnick, who lived, had a property next door to Epstein in New York, but talked to him three times over a decade.”

A source familiar with Lutnick’s testimony said the commerce secretary described their first meeting in 2005, when he moved in next door and he and his wife met Epstein in his home for coffee; a second meeting as a guest with his family to Epstein’s island in 2012; and a third meeting to discuss scaffolding in Epstein’s foyer, an interaction that was not previously detailed. The date of the third meeting was unclear. Lutnick said he never saw Epstein with any young women and never witnessed anything inappropriate.

Lutnick, who left Cantor Fitzgerald last year after President Donald Trump named him commerce secretary, is among at least a half-dozen top officials in the Trump administration, including the president himself, whose names appear in the files. Trump, who has not been accused of any crime in connection with Epstein and denies any wrongdoing, has acknowledged being friendly with him before they had a falling-out about two decades ago, years before Epstein became a convicted sex offender.

Some congressional Democrats have accused Lutnick of lying and called on him to resign or be fired. They echoed that demand Wednesday following his testimony. His appearance in the files has also prompted students at Haverford College, Lutnick’s alma mater in Pennsylvania, to demand his name be stripped from the private liberal art school’s library.

Lutnick told Axios in March: “I have done nothing wrong and I want to set the record straight.” A Commerce Department spokesperson said in a statement Tuesday that Lutnick was “putting to rest the inaccurate and baseless claims in the media designed to distract from his historic work underway at the Commerce Department.”

A White House spokesperson defended Lutnick earlier this year, saying, “President Trump has assembled the best and most transformative Cabinet in modern history.”

An inconsistent timeline

Matt Dallek, a historian and political management professor at George Washington University, said that Lutnick would most certainly face questions over his credibility.

“It’s risky business for him to go before Congress and testify about Epstein,” Dallek said. “Because lo and behold, he visited the island with his kids.”

Trump, he added, will want to know how Lutnick performed.

“If Lutnick comes off as wishy-washy or ineffective, Trump could sour on him,” Dallek said. “Especially if he wants a fall guy for the economy.”

Lutnick has repeatedly denied mingling with Epstein.

In a 2024 Forbes profile, Lutnick’s spokesperson told the magazine he “never had any association with Mr. Epstein.” And in a podcast interview in October, Lutnick described visiting Epstein’s townhouse with his wife, Allison, in 2005 and seeing a massage table in the middle of a room filled with candles. Lutnick said Epstein told him he received massages “every day” and got “weirdly close” to say “the right kind of massage.”

“In the six to eight steps it takes to get from his house to my house,” Lutnick said, “my wife and I decided that I will never be in the room with that disgusting person ever again.”

“I was never in the room with him socially, for business, or even philanthropy,” he added. “If that guy was there, I wasn’t going, because he’s gross.”

He also said in the podcast interview that Epstein was the “greatest blackmailer ever.”

House Democrats have said they want to know why Lutnick believed that, especially after the Justice Department wrote in a memo in July that there was “no credible evidence found that Epstein blackmailed prominent individuals.”

Khanna told reporters Wednesday that Lutnick was asked about the blackmail comment during his testimony. Lutnick clarified that he “was just speculating, and Epstein actually didn’t engage in blackmailing,” Khanna said.

Khanna said he was skeptical of the flip-flop.

“This raises the question of what the cover-up is,” Khanna said. “Did someone tell him to say that?”

May 18: Tova Noel, a former federal prison guard who is believed to be the last person to have seen Epstein alive.
May 29: Pam Bondi, the former attorney general who oversaw the release of the files.
June 9: Lesley Groff, Epstein’s longtime secretary.
June 10: Bill Gates, the Microsoft co-founder who says it was a “huge mistake” to associate with Epstein.
June 26: Leon Black, the billionaire investor and Epstein associate.
July 15: Kathy Ruemmler, the Goldman Sachs lawyer who stepped down after email correspondence with Epstein was released.

In letters and at a Senate budget hearing last month, Democrats have repeatedly asked Lutnick about his relationship with Epstein, including why, in 2013, Epstein’s accountant emailed, “Attached is resume of Lutnick nanny,” and said arrangements were being made “for you to meet her.”

Lutnick dodged senators’ questions at the hearing, saying he would “answer them all” when he appeared before the House Oversight Committee.

A decade of contact

The filesoutline Lutnick’s occasional email contact with Epstein over nearly a decade.

Emails appear in 2009, the year after Epstein’s conviction. Epstein received a message saying, “Lutnick would like to speak to you.”

Two years later, they were arranging phone calls. One evening, Epstein scheduled Lutnick for “drinks” before dinners with director Woody Allen and fashion designer Vera Wang, according to his emails. The next day, Epstein suggested in an email that Lutnick forgot his phone.

In December 2012, Epstein was scheduled to attend a breast cancer charity dinner at a large hotel ballroom for which the Lutnicks were among the event co-chairs. And two days before Christmas, the Lutnicks and their children, along with another family with young kids, planned to visit Epstein’s home in the U.S. Virgin Islands, the emails show. The day after the visit, Epstein’s assistant wrote to Lutnick, “Jeffrey wished me to pass along the below to you: Nice seeing you.”

When asked about the island visit during a Senate Appropriations subcommittee hearing in February, Lutnick said there was nothing “untoward” about the interaction but said he did not recall why his family agreed to go.

The files also show mutual financial interests.

A few days after the visit, both men were among the signatories on a stock purchase agreement in AdFin, a digital advertising technology company.

The next year, the possible deal between then-Prince Andrew and Cantor Fitzgerald began brewing. Andrew’s aide, David Stern, wanted Epstein’s advice.

Epstein called Lutnick “smart,” but he warned Stern that Andrew “will end up in the news” because of his involvement with Lutnick, who at the time had a sportsbook and gambling technology company subject to audits and financial disclosures. “Don’t do it,” Epstein wrote, warning in another email that Andrew “will have holy hell to pay” because of Lutnick’s gaming affiliation.

The following month, Epstein advised Stern on what the terms of an agreement between Andrew and Cantor Fitzgerald should look like, according to the emails. But when Stern asked Epstein two months later if he had seen the proposal, Epstein replied in one word: “Goofy.”

It’s unclear what ultimately came of it, but a Cantor Fitzgerald spokesperson said in a statement that the firm “has never had any business dealings with Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor.” (Last year, King Charles removed Andrew’s royal titles amid a growing scandal over the former prince’s known ties to Epstein.)

In the following years, Epstein received three invitations to events involving Lutnick.

In late 2017, Epstein donated $50,000 to a Jewish philanthropic organization that was hosting a Wall Street benefit dinner honoring Lutnick, the emails show. Epstein did not attend, but he wrote “tell Lutnick he can fill” the table.

Their last email communication appears to be from the spring of 2018 — over what was a pressing issue in their neighborhood.

“Are you aware as to them building to block our park views. What should we do about it? Time is of the essence,” Lutnick wrote in a message sent to Epstein’s assistant.

The nearby Frick Collection art museum was gearing up for an expansion, threatening their coveted views of Central Park. Lutnick urged Epstein to write a letter to the city. In a later email, Epstein changed the subject: “On another note what do you think the prospects for adfin are?” He was referring to the tech company whose stock they purchased in 2012.

Lutnick responded: “Producing revenue finally. This is their year. Next 12 months they need to become economically self sufficient.”

AdFin would shutter in October 2019, three months after Epstein’s second arrest and his death in jail.

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